Carlos Vicario: As we come back to the ninth installment in our interview series, I want to ask you about the work you do as a social justice activist. How is this possible, from where you are?

Efren Paredes, Jr.: It’s true that the media used to control much of the content readers consumed—they acted as gatekeepers in the public square. For years, the stories of incarcerated people were filtered through that narrow and biased lens. Prisoners were not only invisible to the public, they were also voiceless and no one heard their stories.

Those days are long gone. I can now share my voice and writings on the global stage, and share them in a multimedia format on my own timetable. I don’t need anyone’s permission or endorsement. I have the power to be an agent of change where I am, whether it’s appearing on radio shows and podcasts, or being featured on a website, blog, or social media platform. No one can cage my voice or thoughts.

CV: From a specifically technological perspective, though— You can use the telephone, and email, which are permitted inside prison; but I know you actively blog, oversee a website, and are present on other social media platforms. You’re familiar with these things, even though you’ve been incarcerated since before an Internet existed. How do you manage an actively changing technology that you can’t personally use?

EPJ: That’s always a problem in prison, and it leaves many prisoners feeling even more cut off, because they don’t know how they would ever cope with technologies they’ve never experienced.

I use two strategies: reading books and magazines; and watching programs about technology on television, or listening to them on the radio. Books—you can read all sorts of things about digital literacy, the Internet, search engines, social media platforms, website and blog creation, etc. Then there are the technology magazines like PC World, PC Magazine, and WIRED. Sometimes I ask friends to print information from various website help pages and FAQs, to help me learn how to do things.

But, I only have the information, not the access. I know how to do things online, and I often give suggestions and guide people through processes they are unfamiliar with; but it takes family and friends to actually create and maintain the things I want to do. I create all my own content and send it to them via phone calls and email. Then, they share it with the world for me. Without these amazing people, none of that would be possible.

CV: So that’s the “how.” Here’s the next question: Why? What do you think you can do to make a factual difference in the world outside? Why make the effort?

EPJ: In other words, why speak up? Ask yourself, what’s going to happen if no one does? I believe that when we choose to own a story, we get to control the narrative and write the ending. We can change our outcomes. We can do that in the free world, and we can do that in prison.

If we sit around waiting for others to address a problem it may never happen. Consider that if people in the past had not voiced their dissent, we would still be living in a shameful society where women couldn’t vote, slave auctions and lynchings were popular attractions, and Native Americans were being robbed of their land. Going along with the status quo means leaving everything the way it is.

CV: You’ve shared that you feel responsibility in the case of women’s rights, because of the awareness your daughter has brought to your thinking. What are some of the other issues that touch you personally and make you reach out?

EPJ: Injustice. Injustice. That’s a pretty broad range, until you think about what even one case of injustice anywhere means in your life. There are seven fundamental principles required to maintain order in the universe, and justice is one of them. Justice: meaning fairness and equality, regardless of a person’s race, gender, religion, sexual orientation, or station in life. Without it, a society decays, and spirals downward into chaos. If you don’t think that will affect you, think again. This is about the world you live in.

Personally, I’ve been involved in a number of campaigns for different issues and causes over the years. One was getting a charter approval for the creation of a Mexican indigenous middle school in the Los Angeles Unified School District. I was also part of a campaign that led to the filing of hate crime charges by the U.S. Department of Justice against individuals who murdered a Mexican immigrant in Pennsylvania because of his ethnicity, which the state governor at that time refused to acknowledge. And, I’m a co-founder of Presente.org, the largest online organizing platform dedicated to the political empowerment of Latino communities, which was launched in 2009.

Other successful campaigns, which I’ve been part of, have included holding a CNN news anchor to account for using racist, xenophobic language about Latino immigrants; helping political candidates generate support for their campaigns; and supporting the removal of racist Confederate-era monuments across the country.

CV: Let me catch this word, “platform.” What purpose does a platform serve, and how does it work?

EPJ: Simply, we’re talking about getting people together on the same level, in the same space, and giving them a place to stand together. That can include building coalitions and alliances that didn’t previously exist between organizations and groups of people of various races, religions, and walks of life; creating online petitions that send messages to lawmakers and others expressing support for a specific legislative change or campaign; or empowering prisoners to transform their lives through processes of education.

It’s all about getting together for the purpose of creating social justice: fighting hunger, homelessness, and the school-to-prison pipeline; supporting criminal justice reform and immigration reform; upholding environmental movements that promote renewable energy and help to reduce our carbon footprint. Fighting for the right to drink clean water and breathe clean air; promoting gender and economic equity—I support all these issues, most of which can also be characterized as human rights issues.

CV: Is there one event or campaign that stands out in your mind—as impacting you for what happened there?

EPJ: I once spoke at a “Stop the Violence” event in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. That event was to promote peace in response to the police shooting of an unarmed teenage boy. There was a lot of tension in the Toronto community at the time, and I was invited to speak at the event by organizers, who were urging calm.

The Toronto event was particularly memorable to me, because it was the first international event I spoke at; and it made me realize that words matter in every situation. Even though I was hundreds of miles away from my audience, I was speaking truth to them that mattered and made a difference—on a global scale.

I carry that with me today as I do interviews and presentations across this country, whether it’s calling in by phone or sending out an interview via prison email. Wherever my voice reaches, I want to deliver messages of hope, of healing, and the need for social justice. Also, I try to raise awareness about the need for criminal justice reform, and our need as a society to embrace the concept of redemption.

I speak frequently on juvenile justice issues. I speak to classes of inner city high school students and college students, who need to be thinking about the choices that will impact their future. That’s one of the things I enjoy most: working with young people.

CV: You also focus strongly on race relations. Are you motivated—at least partly—by a prison environment where voluntary racial segregation is a serious issue?

EPJ: It can be more of an issue or less of an issue depending on where you’re incarcerated. In states where the racial composition is less diverse, there’s more racial segregation between prisoners. Also, in states where a higher number of prisoners are part of organizations that only permit membership based on ethnicity or geography, racial segregation is higher as well.

In Michigan prisons, there is actually more segregation based on cities, neighborhoods, religions, and organizations. During yard times, unit dayroom times, and gym, people frequently spend time with others who share their interests or come from similar backgrounds. While this may result in people being separated by race, at times, that isn’t the specific intent. I would say that in Michigan, racial separation is more generational than anything. Older prisoners are more inclined to separate themselves from other prisoners, based on race, especially if they lived in times of segregation and the Civil Rights era.

When I ask younger prisoners what they think of racial segregation, they frequently feel it’s something older people do and think about. These are the Millennials: there are studies that suggest 60% of them reject all forms of racism or prejudice.

I see young people of various races communicating regularly more today than I did nearly three decades ago, when I started my incarceration. A lot of this has changed because of the increase in biracial births in the past few decades, and the surge of young people of color born each year.

That said, when racial separation becomes most visible in prison, it’s when a conflict occurs between members of different races. In that case, it can become about race in the eyes of prisoners who are looking for a reason to engage in conflict, even though the disagreement may have had nothing to do with race to begin with.

CV: Have you, at times, experienced racial difficulties in prison yourself?

EPJ: That’s both yes and no. Over the years, I’ve seen numerous instances of certain staff members abusing and mistreating prisoners, including myself, because of race. It’s becoming less of a problem than it used to be, because older staff members retire, and the generation coming in is more diverse. But there’s still work to be done in this area—a lot of room for improvement.

On the other hand, I’ve rarely been the target of other prisoners mistreating me because of race and ethnicity. They see me interact with other prisoners of all ages, races, cultures, and spiritual beliefs on a daily basis. They don’t have to wonder if I’m approachable, or if I’ll be judgmental of them because of who they are.

There’s also an issue of respect in prison: if you aren’t afraid to speak for yourself and be consistent, people recognize that. People know where I stand on issues of race and conflict: I’ve always been consistent in my views about race, and I don’t compromise them.

CV: Which, let me note, can also generate negative backlash—let’s say, in the wider world where you may be taking a message to people who don’t always want to hear it.

EPJ: It can, but that’s not the point. If we say we stand for justice, we should mean it. Millennials say, “walk it like we talk it.” People don’t respect hypocrisy: they understand that what isn’t condemned is condoned. Silence is making a statement: silence is loud. You’re saying something when you don’t say something. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. once said, “In the end we will remember, not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.”

Anyone can sit down and be quiet when there’s public pressure. Lasting change in history comes—and it only comes—through people who make sacrifices of time and resources, and even their reputations to speak out against injustice.

CV: Speak out, even if it costs you right now.

EPJ: Speak out right here, right now. There won’t be a better opportunity. Right now, we’re at a very critical time for this country. It should be obvious to any reasonably minded person that our nation is in a crisis and race relations are deeply fractured. Women and girls are also being tragically mistreated by men thirsting for power and dominance.

You know what? Those things aren’t separate. We have studies showing that anti-feminist rhetoric and misogyny (i.e., hatred toward women) are often precursors to white nationalism and white supremacist ideologies. Some experts say the loathing of women is the “connective tissue” to other extremist views that produce violence. We’re looking at a deadly mixture of deeply distorted belief systems that deserves our attention.

So if we ignore this rising tide of corrosive behavior and hate, we’re empowering racists and sexists to carry on. The ideologies of misogyny and racism are among the major contributors to our country being under siege by domestic terrorists (e.g., white nationalists and white supremacists) in recent years, and scores of innocent people being victimized by the scourge of mass gun violence.

If people condemn the violence, they must take the next rational step of rejecting the thinking that produces it. When we use our silence to condone the demonization of women/girls and people of color, we’re building a culture that says some groups of people are less than human—that they are Others, outsiders, who gradually become objects. Things. Once this tragic cycle begins, the result is a reckless disregard of life, because we no longer view certain groups as humans like ourselves.

It does absolutely no good to oppose acts of mass gun violence, if we don’t also oppose the sources they spring from. In the words of Danielle Sered, author of Until We Reckon: Violence, Mass Incarceration, and a Road to Repair, it’s like “trimming the branches and inadvertently watering the root.”

CV: Trying to cut back what’s on top, without getting what’s underneath.

EPJ: Correct. We object to the acting, but we need to object to the thinking.

CV: You come from a multicultural family yourself: Latino, Black and White. How does that influence your perspective on race relations—on building, let’s say, more constructive relationships?

EPJ: For me personally, it makes it easier to communicate with others. I’ve grown up with people of diverse backgrounds, and I know we could choose to see our differences as barriers to separate us. Yet the thing we have in common is that we’re different. That’s a unique tie of its own! It’s a beauty that we get to share as a family.

When I look at pictures of my young daughter and her cousins, they’re all smiling, giggling, and getting along perfectly. I see my daughter with her brown skin, hair, and eyes playing alongside cousins her age who have white skin, blonde hair, and blue eyes; and others with chocolate colored skin and tight curls, or rocking afro puffs.

And, when I talk to my daughter, she’s full of excitement to spend time with her cousins every chance she gets. Kids don’t only reinvent our lives, they also model the possibilities of a world where we can coexist without the stain of racial hatred and bigotry. Sometimes they are even the best teachers to help restore humanity in the world.

Look at these beautiful kids, teaching us! There’s nothing intelligent about savagely pitting people against one another like animals because of their race, gender, or ideological differences. Racism is small. It’s shallow and ignorant and grows up from insecurity and weakness.

I tell people all the time: there is nothing wrong with expressing cultural or racial pride. They should be proud of themselves and who they are. But they shouldn’t feel superior to any other group of people because that’s where their thinking becomes distorted and their actions turn dysfunctional. It’s where hate gets started.

CV: So we have a message: let’s talk for a moment about how to deliver it. You can put your voice on the global internet, on podcasts, on talk shows and in schools, but how do you make it matter from there? How do you reach someone else’s mind and leave an impact?

EPJ: The first thing is that you have to know the audience you’re communicating with, in order to be effective. It’s often about the delivery—not so much what we say, but how we say it.

Then, addressing an issue sometimes means educating the audience about the problem before telling them the problem. If I say, “There’s lead paint in your house,” you might not know anything about the dangers of lead paint, and you might say, “So what?” But if I say, “Lead paint causes illness, and can seriously harm children,” and then I say, “There’s lead paint in your house,” you’re probably listening.

We also have to present sensible alternatives that can work. Just complaining about things, but offering no viable solutions, is counterproductive. If I say, “There’s lead paint in your house, and it’s making your children sick, but I don’t know what you can do about it,” I’ve identified the problem, but I’m not helping you. That hurts my credibility. On the other hand, if I tell you about a proven remediation program, and offer you three ways to sign up, you might keep paying attention, and take action.

We have to build bridges. I definitely encourage people to use their voice. But I want them to express themselves in a thoughtful, intelligent way that chooses reason over emotion. I want them to make an effort through their choice of language to bring people together, not rip them apart. Divisive language forces people to choose sides on an issue and want to be right.

CV: But we all want to be right, don’t we?

EPJ: That’s the instinct, yes. But the moment a person is determined to be right, other voices and perspectives no longer matter. Peace and the building of community aren’t born in rugged individualism. We find them by choosing compassion, understanding, and effective communication.

CV: So, “be outspoken, but be a good listener, and try to see where the other person is coming from.”

EPJ: Yes! It’s when you make up your mind that there’s no more to say, and stop listening, that you can miss new opportunities to learn. You might not agree with a person, but there are still things that person could teach you.

That doesn’t mean you’re going to let everyone else make up your mind for you, or just do whatever they want or say. I quote Dr. King again: “A true leader is not a gatherer of consensus but a molder of consensus.” He said this because we shouldn’t spend our lives trying to be accepted by others or embracing all the norms of society. At the same time, if we lock ourselves into our own limited world, and decide, “Nobody’s worth listening to but people who think like me,” we will miss out on the chance to grow, we won’t think in critical ways, and we won’t generate change.

Being open to listening, to thinking about what someone else has to say, is a kind of vulnerability. If we don’t allow that, because we’re afraid of change in ourselves—because we’re afraid someone might teach us something that will change our minds—we’re crippling the person we could become.

CV: How would you respond though, to someone whose views are totally offensive—someone who is, let’s say, openly preaching racism?

EPJ: Let me be clear: listening with empathy and being open to learning doesn’t mean you give up your principles. Two years ago, in 2017, a white supremacist rally in Charlottesville created a flashpoint on race relations in this country. Rally organizers came to protest the removal of a statue of Confederate general Robert E. Lee, who is so closely associated with the evil legacy of slavery in America. Now, whether or not you agree with that assessment of him, whether or not you think he should be positively remembered for his fight to preserve the rights of southern citizens to own and torture and abuse people on the basis of race—that rally spewed out a divisive, destructive message of hatred and bigotry.

Hatred is divisive. Bigotry is destructive. If I’m about reconciliation, and you’re about division, I’m going to oppose you. I’m going to oppose returning to the failed ideas of a dark past where this country held people of color captive and subjected them to brutal oppression. But I’m not going to demonize you, because discussions about race in this country need to be sensible, educated, and approached with a positive outcome in mind. If you’re into division, and destruction, I want to see you become educated, instead.

Over the years, I’ve spent considerable time talking to a number of people whose views on race I didn’t necessarily agree with or support. But I did it as a form of respect and to help me understand them better through their own lens. Most of them have appreciated my efforts. In several instances, our conversation led to an evolution in the way they think about others who are different from themselves. That wouldn’t be possible if I just isolated myself from them and treated them as subhuman—if I’d stayed in my own corner.

We have to engage with others in order to help them learn, grow, and change. People learn distorted thinking, and they have the capacity to unlearn it as well.

That said, a person who refuses to grow out of bigotry—who sets his or her feet and won’t budge—is making a foolish choice. He’s hurting himself and fighting a current that can’t be altered.

Time is not a friend to fools. If you’re trafficking in racism and hatred, you’re making a fool of yourself and wasting your time, because these ideas are headed for the dustbin of history. That’s what people don’t recognize when they use hate-speech against immigrants, when they obsess over how to ring our country with walls—it’s a waste of time. It’s a futile exhaustion, that won’t change what’s coming.

The complexion of our nation is growing more beautiful each day. There is light coming, and it’s a light of inclusion, diversity and equality.

CV: I’m going to stop us here, since next time I want to talk about work you’re doing closer to home—inside prison, and behind bars, to change the lives of incarcerated people for the better. And that’s too extensive a topic for just a quick question. Thank you again, and thank you to our readers for joining us.

 

Part 10 of this interview coming soon.

Efren Paredes, Jr. is a Michigan prisoner and subject of the new multi-channel documentary film installation, “Half Truths and Full Lies.” He is also a blogger, social justice advocate, proud father, and loving husband. You can learn more about Efren by visiting www.fb.com/Free.Efren and www.tinyurl.com/Efren1016.